Has Boyd finally decided to run off VP players?

Not overly surprised by most of this.
Boyd has always been one of the worst though for backing off VP only players if they seem to only play the better games. Didn't affect me because I play slots too but have heard stories of people who would lose their points without notice.
Another thing is I notice at the Boyd properties off-strip that they mix up their paytabes quite a lot. Most casinos generally have a full pay bank, that's labeled and offers less points. I found at Sam's Town for example they have good games, but you have to literally walk around and look at every game. There was a bank with one mulit-hand 9/6 DDB game in between two games with 7/5 DDB. Points were earned the same, you just had to be educated on paytables. I think they found it easier to use the actual loss model vs re configuring each game. Found this at Orleans too but to a lesser extent.

 

You are perfectly right!
My biggest VP losing sessions all happened on + EV game: 10/6 DDB. Three times I lost 3000$ within 2 hours, once at Boulder Station, twice at Palace Station.

 

That is the way it is. Several other tracking systems also drop partial credit.
Since it takes so much (~100$ coin in) to earn 1 credit, about 80 hands on $0.25 game, some people switch games more frequent than 80 hands, then they never get any credit even if they play a whole day on the same machine.
It was not a big issue at other casinos because it’s usually much easier to earn 1 credit (Such as $10 coin in).

 

Yeah, but if you had been playing 8/5 on the strip, you would have lost ~$3300 (assuming ~1000 dollar single line hands per hour), so trekking out to Palace Station saved you $300. Whether the downgrade from the strip is worth $150/hour to you is a different question...

 

I stopped playing at Gold Coast a few years ago. I always lose money even with their full pay machines. At least I win some and lose some at Rio between 2013 to 2015. Won 3 royals on dollar machines within 2 years. Haven't have any luck since 2016. But never once have I won any money at Gold Coast, so full pay machines in Gold Coast is meaningless to me. I guess it did offer us free room when we were still playing at Gold Coast, but never even stay there, I heard their rooms are small. The only thing I like is that the price at their restaurants are more reasonable, even the steak house. But Suncoast has decent room, decent restaurants and good comps when we were playing there, and not losing as much as Gold Coast. I would play at Suncoast if I ever play at a Boyd Casino again.

 

You have a good point if math can be trusted.

 

Sure, anything can happen during any session. You'll have some lucky and some unlucky sessions on both good and bad pay tables and that luck is likely to determine whether you leave a winner or loser, but if you play on better pay tables you'll lose less when you lose and you'll win more when you win. If you only play a little, the difference might not be worth leaving the strip (I know you've made this calculus already), if you play as much as me, you can't afford to play on the strip. But the difference is there for every player, regardless of luck. I know I've belabored this beyond the point of beating a dead horse, but I think most casual players just don't realize how big the difference is... it's much worse than 6:5 blackjack or 2x odds and easily exceeds the cost of parking or resort fees. Maybe I'll consider dropping it when everyone stops complaining about resort fees...

 

Sadly I think you are right.

Also the vegas corporations are having a hard time figuring out why profits are not what they want to be in a good economy..

 

FASTER. LONGER. BETTER. KEEP YOUR TIER LEVEL FOR ONE YEAR
No matter what B Connected tier you are, you'll earn Tier Credits towards the next tier just by playing your favorite slots, video poker games, table games, and bingo. The more you play, the more Tier Credits you earn.

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Tier Credits determine card level and are different than B Connected points. Tier Credits have no value and may not be cashed out (where available) or redeemed for FastPlay. Tier Credits expire on December 31 each year.

Game Type How to Earn One Tier Credit
Reels, Video Reels, and Keno $5.00 Coin-In
Video Poker & Multi-Games Based on game played, denomination, and time played.
Table Games Based on game played, average bet, and time played.
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This is from their website, there is no predetermined coin in on VP. The Mrs and I just returned from Labor Day weekend stay at Suncoast. We’re both Emerald which used to be $500K through within the year as we were East Coast players. Now it’s any guess how tier points are earned. I played 200.00 though 9/5 1.00 DDB. Took about 30-40 minutes with a few F/H , trips etc. I earned 4 tier credits. The new system is 15k tier credits to maintain emerald. Needless to say used over 500,000 points =500.00 and bought gifts,coffee, etc.

Met with our host who was in tears as she had over 15 large players told her they were moving properties. We are too, been loyal to them for 17 years, there was a good relationship before the “new” B-Conned program rolled out. I guess back to CET or elsewhere that will at least be transparent with the coin in

 

From Boyd: Video Poker & Multi-Games Based on game played, denomination, and time played.

Sure it's not secret or hidden. Crystal clear. Maybe Boyd thinks all players are Tring .......

 

So now tiers are uniform across all markets too? That was another weird thing with them, I realized when I played at Blue Chip when I was in the Midwest occasionally, and realized I earned tier credits 3x faster there than in Vegas. Guess that's over too?

 

It's certainly a new day. For better or for worse I'll leave up to everyone's individual judgement.

In some ways though, this was inevitable, when the corporations came in they also brought their obligation to shareholders to increase returns and profit, to keep growing. Given that the leadership of most of these corporations are fairly unoriginal, that there's only a limited growth curve that you can have in Las Vegas, cutting your way to profitability was really the only option open to them.

They're banking HARD on the assumption that people will keep coming to Vegas despite the changes, and if in that process they lose a few 'hardcore' gamblers?

You can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs.

It's not that they won't still welcome high-roller gamblers, they'll even roll out the red carpet for them. I would wager that those players are still highly coveted, especially players who bet large, and don't blink at six-figure losses. For those gamblers Vegas hasn't changed any at all.

For the rest of us, including mid-level players and guppies such as myself, we've become expendable, white-goods to the casinos who view us not only as replaceable, but downright undesirable IF we play at a certain level, on certain games, and expect to be comped for our efforts. I would argue that in the eyes of the casinos a group of twenty-somethings who are willing to pay rack rate, who plan to visit the club and possibly get bottle service, who will eat, pay for drinks and gamble a LITTLE for entertainment purposes, are way, way more coveted than a 40-something couple who want a night or two comped, the casino rates on other nights, won't visit the club, will eat a fancy meal or three, and plan to spend most of our time playing either VP or other lower house edge games, with the occasional penny slot thrown in for good measure. I'm not mad at them for it. They have no obligation to cater to my needs.

But neither do I have an obligation to visit and spend my entertainment dollar at their establishment.

Right now Mrs. P and I have chosen Cosmo, MLife, and certain downtown properties as our bases because the value is still there. I've abandoned CET because it no longer was. Everyone is going to have to do their own cost/benefit analysis to determine whether or not it's still there for you. This might mean cutting down on Vegas trips or even eliminating them all-together for a while until there is a course correction. For others, none of this matters and you're going to keep on keeping on. The point is, no one is really wrong on whatever they decide and there will always be a casino operator who will take your money.

 

It's the opposite, they want it to be confusing... but it's really not. It just takes a little effort (but no math beyond dividing two numbers) to figure out. Fortunately, we have the internet now, so all the work has been done for us and we can just look up the results.

Also (this is not in response to your comment, but just a general observation), I'm surprised that everyone is still so focused on the tier points (which are largely valueless in my mind) and not the comp points (which have actual cash value). Is everyone else getting the multiplier offers that I am in my Boyd account? There are 10X or 11X multipliers on almost every week day in Sept and Oct in their off strip/DT properties, but I haven't seen any discussion of whether these are capped or don't apply to certain games, etc.

 

That’s true, however you must be sapphire or higher to earn any points at all, the multiplier is irrelevant unless sapphire or higher. The point is that getting to any level is a total guessing game if your a VP player. I would encourage you to spend some time playing VP and see how many tier points you earn. Once you lose your current status you will have to start at the beginning. Ruby card holders earn NOTHING at this time. Not a big deal for me right now but just another crappy hand dealt. Just my .02 cents

 

My point was it's not a guessing game. The earning rate is just different for every game (based on that game's theoretical house edge), but it can be easily calculated by just playing a set number of hands and checking to see how many points you earned after. The Peppermill in Reno has the same system and I did that for the 5 or 6 different games I play in maybe 45 minutes. It's really not hard.

That said, yeah, it's definitely a crappy change for VP players looking to take advantage of overly generous casino offers. On the bright side for low rolling VP players, the low rolling slot players have it even worse, they're actually playing the games Boyd wants them to and still not earning any points...

 

I am not but I also agree on the tier points.

 

Bite your tongue!!!