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Ainsworth progressive jackpot question. Saw this today...

Discussion in 'Slot Machines' started by Tycoon, Jul 18, 2019.

  1. Tycoon

    Tycoon Bronze

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    Saw this old lady betting 25 cents, one line, for a few hours. She was there when I got there, and was still playing when I left.

    I am guessing she was chasing the progressive.

    Does anyone know if it's possible to hit it with a 25 cent (min) one line bet?

    I wanted to play that machine but she would not get off it. Kept feeding it money too :mad:

    So is she "smart" by playing 25 cents, or is she wasting money because it won't hit with a one line bet because the jackpot won't be awarded this way?
     

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  2. Goldenknight

    Goldenknight Platinum

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    I don't belive there's a minimum bet to qualify for them, but with $200 till the must pay there's a good chance it'll still be a very long time until it hits.
     
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  3. jyen

    jyen I love gambling !
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    I'm sure any bet will trigger progressive. I've seen people at local min bet 1 line (dollar machine) and hit it
     
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  4. Tycoon

    Tycoon Bronze

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    True. I swear my local doesn't have these hit until $9,950 minimum.

    Dang. That's crazy.

    Grandma was definitely trying for it then.
     
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  5. Goldenknight

    Goldenknight Platinum

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    That's how my local seems to be, but in the slot porn thread people are hitting them at like $9,100-$9,400 regularly, so maybe I'm just there at the wrong times? Lol
     
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  6. Tycoon

    Tycoon Bronze

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    I swear, those people have a "nice" local haha.

    I do know I have seen mine many times above $7,900 (mine only goes to 8k max). Of course I can't stand by my local's machines all the time, but I still stick to my statement that my local is more tight than theirs. But in the slot porn thread, multiple same people have hit it only a few hundred above the reset amount. Maybe I will get that lucky on day lol
     
  7. MNSlotLover

    MNSlotLover Ainsworth Whisperer
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    At my local they hit below $9,500 all the time. They have a group of 6 $1 denom in HL. Min bet is 5 credits and it will trigger at that level. I’ve been lucky enough to hit the Major on 3 of them, and 2 of the 3 were under $9,200. Only once did I jump on one of those with the intent of making a run at the major. I was playing next to a guy I see there often who is a real big player. He was cranking away at $100 per spin for about an hour. He had it up to almost $9,800 and had to leave. He asked me if I wanted to move over to his seat and I did. Think I had about $300 in it when it hit. Funny part was there were a few lurkers waiting for him to give up and they were VERY unhappy!
     
  8. Goldenknight

    Goldenknight Platinum

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    I remember you telling that story before, but it still brings a smile to my face :sweatsmile:
     
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  9. Tycoon

    Tycoon Bronze

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    haha I remember that story in an old slot porn thread, but it never gets old! That's awesome though! But yeah, you're the guy I think of when I play those machines. I won't lie, I am kind of hunting this one now. My local doesn't have a huge HL player base. It only moves like $50 a day, LOL.

    I swear I'll be pissed if I go back tomorrow and see it was hit by that old lady.

    edit - Just looked at an old picture I took of it.

    On July 6 it was at $7,713.23. Today, 12 days later, it was at $7.808.66 when I left.

    So it moved $95.43 in 12 days...yikes. My local sucks.
     
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  10. Big Slotter/kdk

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    Yeah, I remember reading that a random dollar amount is chosen by the machine each time it resets between the min and max. I seem to think it's usually skewed towards the high end, but can't say for sure. I once hit a minor though on a quarter one at barely over $150. I was chasing a high minor in the $190 range but gave up. Came back a short time later and saw it at $150.01 and was upset I missed it, but played $20 in it anyway and hit it on the second spin at $150.02.
     
  11. MNSlotLover

    MNSlotLover Ainsworth Whisperer
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    I was sitting at the Ainsworth bank at my local and saw a woman hit a $9,700+ Enforcer major and then hit it again about 10 minutes later at less that $9,003. I was shocked, but this proves to me they are truly random.
     
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  12. Tycoon

    Tycoon Bronze

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    That's crazy.

    But I am sad to report that the old lady apparently hit the jackpot the day after I made this thread. On a 25 cent bet. Sigh
     
  13. Chris_canada

    Chris_canada Bronze

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    I only play Ainsworth machines. And these minor/major mystery progressive machines are my favourite. In the last 3 years I’ve hit the major 3 times on 0.25.
    (Range 4K to 5k —-> hit at 42xx, 44xx, 47xx)
    I’ve hit the $1 denom major 7 times
    (Range 9k to 10k —-> 5 times at 92xx or below and once at 95xx and the 7th time at 9997 - thank goodness that last one I started playing just over 9100 and it gave me a ton of play so I still made money on it when it went in 9997).

    My personal fav. was this minor/major double hit triggered on the same spin!!
     

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  14. Tycoon

    Tycoon Bronze

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    Dang, gimme some of that luck! LOL
     
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  15. dvandentop

    dvandentop Chairman
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    Damn I can only imagine how much coin into go from 9100 to 9900 on these games that's insane
     
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  16. tringlomane

    tringlomane Theoretical Video Poker Addict
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    Technically I don't think it can work that way even though the Wizard of Odds describes the jackpot point is preselected.

    But if you read Section 14.040 of the Nevada gaming regulations that would make that method illegal.

    4. All possible game outcomes must be available upon the initiation of each play of a game upon which a player commits a wager on a gaming device.

    So on any given spin, there has to be a chance of you winning the progressive.

    Now many machines seem to be equally likely to hit at any given amount. But for AGS machines they have been shown to definitely not be that way and are much more likely to hit at the bitter end.

    If the jackpots were equally likely to win at any progressive amount, spin probabilities would look like this. Assume 1 in a 100,000 odds for spin 1 and equal bet spins in this example.

    Spin 1 jackpot probability:
    1 in 100,000

    Spin 2 jackpot probability:
    (jackpot not hitting Spin 1) x (Spin 2 jackpot probability) = 1 in 100,000

    99,999/100,000 x (Spin 2 jackpot probability) = 1 in 100,000

    Spin 2 jackpot probability = 1 in 99,999

    Spin 3 jackpot probability:
    (jackpot not hitting Spin 1) x (jackpot not hitting Spin 2) x (Spin 3 jackpot probability) = 1 in 100,000

    (99,999/100,000) x (99,998/99,999) x (Spin 3 jackpot probability) = 1 in 100,000

    Spin 3 jackpot probability = 1 in 99,998

    Following this pattern...

    Spin 4 = 1 in 99,997
    Spin 5 = 1 in 99,996
    ...
    Spin 1000 = 1 in 99,001
    Spin 5000 = 1 in 95,001
    Spin 50,000 = 1 in 50,001
    Spin 90,000 = 1 in 10,001
    Spin 99,000 = 1 in 1001

    Generically,
    Spin N = 1 in (100,000 - N + 1)

    And finally,
    Spin 100,000 = 1 in 1

    So spin 100,000 also runs afoul of the law technically. But the game rules explicitly state it will be awarded at that point and I assume supercedes the regulation.
     
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  17. aprilroncincy

    aprilroncincy Palladium

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    @tringlomane you make us lazy! Why should we look up gaming codes and VP strategy when you’ll do it for us?! Thanks for doing it!
     
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  18. Grid!

    Grid! Silver

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    I believe your above to be true. It is not illegal for a machine to have a random, yet roughly predetermined trigger for any event.

    Games like Instant Spin award the bonus, roughly every 35-55 spins. It could hit back to back, it could hit once every 200. But the defined veritable is in the stated range.

    When it comes to these "Must hit By" progressives, I think each one is selected in a random "cycle". That is to say, if it must hit by $500, the machine selects, at random, what that cycle will be. Say, $352.15 this round.

    The RNG for game play might very well allow it to be hit earlier, just much much harder to do. Such as your examples, where the proper code would be 1 in 99,999 at the rest level. And slightly better as the progressive, well, progresses. But finally 1 in 1 when it creeps to $352.15.

    If, by the laws of math, it does happen to get hit too early in the cycle, the next cycle might make up for that to keep the games long term theoretical hold in tact. Think $495.69 the next time.

    It will all balance out.

    As for Granny and her 1 line quarter, she is wasting her time. The meter is set to roll up with each flat coin through. Think $10 through rolls the big progressive up a penny, and the small one up 2 cents.

    If you are max betting at $5.00 per spin, every 2 whacks gains 1 & 2 cents respectively. If you are betting .25 per spin, it takes 40 whacks to get there. If the progressive is only tied to that machine, and not a bank, both players will eventually get there. One just much much faster than the other.

    For what it is worth, 1 line 1 credit is a terrible idea on these machines. You forfeit all the other lines, and you make the bonus game, of sticky wilds, expanding wilds and other features that feed into the payback, utterly useless!
     
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  19. tringlomane

    tringlomane Theoretical Video Poker Addict
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    But if a machine intentionally sets the hit point based on its current hold percentage, that's definitely illegal almost everywhere in America. I can't think of a US jurisdiction that permits it.

    For Nevada, it is point 7 of the section 14.040.

    7. Gaming devices must not alter any function of the device based on the actual hold percentage.

    The example I gave above was an example of an even distribution of payout values. A player is just as likely to hit the jackpot at $9000 (minimum) as $10000 (maximium) as the $9000 jackpot hit equals the odds of the machine reaching $10000 without being hit.

    But it doesn't have to be this way. Many AGS machines are not this way even. I have read on other forums the progressives hit very high usually. This is a sign of an unbalanced hit distribution, which is definitely legal, but makes it a sucker bet until the progressives are very high. And when they get very, very high, you definitely should jump on them as it could put yourself into a guaranteed profit scenario. I.e. The coin-in for must-hit to reach the must hit point < The value of the must hit jackpot.
     
  20. Grid!

    Grid! Silver

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    It wouldn't be an alternation. And that is what the law speaks of. Altering is just that, taking the known, published and verified math model and changing it. You cant take a machine with an approved chip set, and alter it to remove all bonus rounds. Or make it so a progressive symbol wont show up.

    That is altering the machine.

    In my instance, the random must hit by selected is still drawn randomly per cycle. And that the correction range, which will also be random but weighted, is just part of the approved, verified and installed math model in the chip.

    You cant alter that chip, or force a change beyond its sequencing. It must stay random. But just like my Instant Spin example, which directly advertised when its random draw for the event should be, as long as the math is so from the factory, there is no alteration.

    Remember, alter is to change. And with weighted math models, like most bonus or progressive machines already have, you do not need to alter anything. You just have to run the math as more likely and less likely. Draw an Ace from a deck full of Aces is easy. Drawing a Deuce from a deck full of Aces is impossible.
     
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