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Cosmo Slots, more than Fair

Discussion in 'Identity - Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas' started by Grid!, Oct 31, 2018.

  1. Big Slotter/kdk

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    yep, 3% profit! I can't tell you the last time I had a win/loss like that if ever. Actually I think I did a little better than that, but my mother played on my card that day a bit and she complained about how much she lost.
     
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  2. dvandentop

    dvandentop Chairman
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    Good lord brutal for sure
     
  3. chico7800

    chico7800 Silver

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    Envy you guys

    IMG_5349.jpg
     
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  4. momnkid

    momnkid Platinum
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    Ohhhhh, how cruel of you to sneak that in when I am jonesing to at least pick a date for another trip lol. And of course, you are forgiven. Your info has been nothing but helpful and informative.

    Here's hoping you have some great trip stats to post so we can continue the discussion!
     
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  5. momnkid

    momnkid Platinum
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    Littlepiggie, here's to better numbers in 2019!
     
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  6. SFGfan

    SFGfan Bronze
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    Chuck, I appreciate the analysis! I have a trip coming up in 2 weeks. Maybe I will reach out to the host that approached me on that Nov. 2018 trip & see what he can do.
    Thanks again!
     
  7. littlepiggie

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    Thanks Feb 1. I get killed at my locals the same. I actually gave up locals
     
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  8. Chuck

    Chuck Platinum
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    Just by way of comparison my per night average coin in last year for 10 nights/2 trips was ~$4,650, with not much variation at all between trips, and my offer that covers from the end of December through May was for 4 nights same room types as yours, with $300 FP and $100 dining credit. Your play in November was 20% higher than mine.

    Only difference I can think of is that I always do a paid upgrade to a Terrace Suite, so I'm shelling out additional $$$ to the hotel, but I don't know why that should affect casino marketing offers.
     
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  9. littlepiggie

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    I have 7 nights 8 days.
    That is amazing
     
  10. littlepiggie

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    Question on Denom. If the slot has adjustable form pennies/nickels/dimes/quarters. If you be the same amount on Pennies as you dimes is it the same paytable?
     
  11. SFGfan

    SFGfan Bronze
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    Okay. I guess my 1 trip that was higher than the norm did not merit much more than $100 free play. We will see how I fare after this next trip. I hope you have a great upcoming trip with many jackpots to post!
     
  12. Goldenknight

    Goldenknight Platinum

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    In theory the payback would be the same, but paytables could end of different. Like Dragon Link changes from 25 lines at lower denominations to 5 lines at higher denoms. The payback % should be the same though
     
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  13. Chuck

    Chuck Platinum
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    I actually changed my mind about this a year or so ago when I read something here by someone who had been to the gaming convention.

    I had always assumed that if you changed the denom, you got a different payback% (because it's certainly technologically doable), but this person was told that either the machines don't do it or the casinos don't do it.

    So I just assume now that on a multi-denom machine, you get the payback % of the lowest denom regardless of which denom you play at.

    So if there's two machines with the same game and one has denoms of .01 / .05 / .10 / .25 and the other is .25 / .50 / $1 / $2 and you want to play quarters - play the second one.
     
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  14. tringlomane

    tringlomane Theoretical Video Poker Addict
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    I guess we'll let you join...
    Oof. Hope you do better for the rest of the year!
     
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  15. momnkid

    momnkid Platinum
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    I am working towards this myself. Here is my view at the end of the night at an MD casino:
    [​IMG]

    Not only killed lololololololol
     
  16. chico7800

    chico7800 Silver

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    That was day 1 of this trip. Day 2 was about the same

    One of those every slot I touch turns to shit trips
     
  17. Grid!

    Grid! Silver

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    From everyone in the industry I have ever talked to, the payback SHOULD increase with a higher denom selected on the same machine.

    If given the option to bet 100 pennies on a 10 line Texas Tina, 20 nickles should be better the bet, 10 dimes should be better than that. All bets are still a buck, but to 10 dimes should hold the best payback.

    In theory, the higher the denom the lower the holds. Even on the same machine. In Vegas, and I'm sure in most places, each denomination of the same game holds its own RNG and set of odds. You will usually see the machine "flip" when you change from one to the other. The older machines, with weaker CPU's, will actually show a "boot" screen with a line across it as the slot switches from one to the other.

    Can a casino order a machine with the exact same 10% hold for each penny, nickle and dime option? Yes. Do they? Usually not. The player playing max bet at dimes is risking $30 a spin. At pennies, its $3.00. They want the action of that $30 push, so they should be catering to that type of player, that expects some time on device for the risk they put in play.

    No different than a casinos reported holds for quarter slots VS $5 denom. Outside of any jackpots that push the numbers inorganically higher, the $5 almost always has a lower hold, which is a higher payback to the players.

    I have asked this question point blank at conventions, to slot Directors or casino Operators, best practice is to switch to the higher denom, still cover all lines, and that should be the best bet on that machine. The only exceptions are when max bets are needed in order to unlock progressives, such as quick hits or the like. The expected returns of those progressives go into the overall long term expected holds. And if you are not playing enough coins per spin in order to actually win those growing amounts, you are not getting the most bang for your buck.

    One thing that should very well be universally true, switching to a higher denom should never yield a higher hold for the casino. I don't think anyone would ever risk bringing in a machine designed like that. So, no matter what, it should never hurt you to go higher, but it will most likely hurt you to go lower. Same lines, no need to max bet for any bonus pays, pick the higher denom. I always do!
     
    #157 Grid!, Jan 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  18. Chuck

    Chuck Platinum
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    Well, now I don't know what to fuckin' think. I think I will just have to drink and put money in and THROW CAUTION TO THE WIND! :D
     
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  19. Chuck

    Chuck Platinum
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    @Grid! do you know what the expiration period is for PointPlay (not converted to FreePlay yet) at TI?

    The FAQ says Treasure Chest points expire in 18 months of no activity, but I don't see anything about PointPlay.

    I have $85 build up. I'm skipping TI this trip because they sent a shitty offer. If the next offer improves, I might stay there in July, but I'll arrive on like the 364th day since last activity, so I'm trying to figure out if I should burn it off now or if it's 18 months expiration for PointPlay also.

    If I go walk in this weekend and just burn off the PointPlay, I'm sure my next offer will be even worse, so I want to wait if I can.
     
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  20. Cosmo_Slot_Vice_President

    Cosmo_Slot_Vice_President Cosmopolitan VP
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    I'll chime in a bit on this topic. Any floor I personally am setting up, I believe that the player should generally be rewarded for playing a higher denomination/betting more. This isn't to say every single game is set that way, but most times, for me, it is.

    Other than Wide Area Progressive machines, the casino has complete control of setting the payback percent on a game (within the choices that the manufacturer produced).
    Most games will come with between 3-6 paytable choices to choose from. And those will range from "Super Tight", call it in the 13-15% range, to "Super Loose", which is like 4-6%. Each paytable jump will be around a 2-3% difference.
    It's no different that viewing various video poker paytables. I could run 9/6 double double bonus at 1.02% or 9/5 at 2.13% or 8/5 at 3.21%. (VP ranges are much closer together.)

    I am pasting below an actual snippet of a game on our floor from our mandated forms that we must be able to produce at anytime should we be audited.
    It has four denominations. And for this game we utilize two different paybacks. As the denom goes up, you'll see a more favorable payback percent. I removed the game title, but you can be assured this game is on our floor right now.

    Some casinos absolutely will just run one paytable for any and all denominations, but I think that's just a bit lazy. Hope this helps.

    -KS
     

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