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Cosmo Slots, more than Fair

Discussion in 'Identity - Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas' started by Grid!, Oct 31, 2018.

  1. SFGfan

    SFGfan Bronze
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    Okay. I guess my 1 trip that was higher than the norm did not merit much more than $100 free play. We will see how I fare after this next trip. I hope you have a great upcoming trip with many jackpots to post!
     
  2. Goldenknight

    Goldenknight Palladium

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    In theory the payback would be the same, but paytables could end of different. Like Dragon Link changes from 25 lines at lower denominations to 5 lines at higher denoms. The payback % should be the same though
     
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  3. Chuck

    Chuck Palladium
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    I actually changed my mind about this a year or so ago when I read something here by someone who had been to the gaming convention.

    I had always assumed that if you changed the denom, you got a different payback% (because it's certainly technologically doable), but this person was told that either the machines don't do it or the casinos don't do it.

    So I just assume now that on a multi-denom machine, you get the payback % of the lowest denom regardless of which denom you play at.

    So if there's two machines with the same game and one has denoms of .01 / .05 / .10 / .25 and the other is .25 / .50 / $1 / $2 and you want to play quarters - play the second one.
     
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  4. tringlomane

    tringlomane Theoretical Video Poker Addict
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    I guess we'll let you join...
    Oof. Hope you do better for the rest of the year!
     
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  5. chico7800

    chico7800 Platinum

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    That was day 1 of this trip. Day 2 was about the same

    One of those every slot I touch turns to shit trips
     
  6. Grid!

    Grid! Platinum

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    From everyone in the industry I have ever talked to, the payback SHOULD increase with a higher denom selected on the same machine.

    If given the option to bet 100 pennies on a 10 line Texas Tina, 20 nickles should be better the bet, 10 dimes should be better than that. All bets are still a buck, but to 10 dimes should hold the best payback.

    In theory, the higher the denom the lower the holds. Even on the same machine. In Vegas, and I'm sure in most places, each denomination of the same game holds its own RNG and set of odds. You will usually see the machine "flip" when you change from one to the other. The older machines, with weaker CPU's, will actually show a "boot" screen with a line across it as the slot switches from one to the other.

    Can a casino order a machine with the exact same 10% hold for each penny, nickle and dime option? Yes. Do they? Usually not. The player playing max bet at dimes is risking $30 a spin. At pennies, its $3.00. They want the action of that $30 push, so they should be catering to that type of player, that expects some time on device for the risk they put in play.

    No different than a casinos reported holds for quarter slots VS $5 denom. Outside of any jackpots that push the numbers inorganically higher, the $5 almost always has a lower hold, which is a higher payback to the players.

    I have asked this question point blank at conventions, to slot Directors or casino Operators, best practice is to switch to the higher denom, still cover all lines, and that should be the best bet on that machine. The only exceptions are when max bets are needed in order to unlock progressives, such as quick hits or the like. The expected returns of those progressives go into the overall long term expected holds. And if you are not playing enough coins per spin in order to actually win those growing amounts, you are not getting the most bang for your buck.

    One thing that should very well be universally true, switching to a higher denom should never yield a higher hold for the casino. I don't think anyone would ever risk bringing in a machine designed like that. So, no matter what, it should never hurt you to go higher, but it will most likely hurt you to go lower. Same lines, no need to max bet for any bonus pays, pick the higher denom. I always do!
     
    #146 Grid!, Jan 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  7. Chuck

    Chuck Palladium
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    Well, now I don't know what to fuckin' think. I think I will just have to drink and put money in and THROW CAUTION TO THE WIND! :D
     
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  8. Chuck

    Chuck Palladium
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    @Grid! do you know what the expiration period is for PointPlay (not converted to FreePlay yet) at TI?

    The FAQ says Treasure Chest points expire in 18 months of no activity, but I don't see anything about PointPlay.

    I have $85 build up. I'm skipping TI this trip because they sent a shitty offer. If the next offer improves, I might stay there in July, but I'll arrive on like the 364th day since last activity, so I'm trying to figure out if I should burn it off now or if it's 18 months expiration for PointPlay also.

    If I go walk in this weekend and just burn off the PointPlay, I'm sure my next offer will be even worse, so I want to wait if I can.
     
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  9. Rio_ChiefGamingOfficer

    Official Account Founding Fanatic

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    I'll chime in a bit on this topic. Any floor I personally am setting up, I believe that the player should generally be rewarded for playing a higher denomination/betting more. This isn't to say every single game is set that way, but most times, for me, it is.

    Other than Wide Area Progressive machines, the casino has complete control of setting the payback percent on a game (within the choices that the manufacturer produced).
    Most games will come with between 3-6 paytable choices to choose from. And those will range from "Super Tight", call it in the 13-15% range, to "Super Loose", which is like 4-6%. Each paytable jump will be around a 2-3% difference.
    It's no different that viewing various video poker paytables. I could run 9/6 double double bonus at 1.02% or 9/5 at 2.13% or 8/5 at 3.21%. (VP ranges are much closer together.)

    I am pasting below an actual snippet of a game on our floor from our mandated forms that we must be able to produce at anytime should we be audited.
    It has four denominations. And for this game we utilize two different paybacks. As the denom goes up, you'll see a more favorable payback percent. I removed the game title, but you can be assured this game is on our floor right now.

    Some casinos absolutely will just run one paytable for any and all denominations, but I think that's just a bit lazy. Hope this helps.

    -KS
     

    Attached Files:

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  10. littlepiggie

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    I have just been unlucky based on this and the side of bad variance. 2019 is going to be Amazing. I am prepared for Massive wins!!! Thanks everyone
     
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  11. dvandentop

    dvandentop Chairman
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    Thanks for the transparency

    Atleast gives everyone an answer on what is or isnt possible.
     
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  12. littlepiggie

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    Thanks for the info
     
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  13. NickPappageorgio

    NickPappageorgio ¿Quién vigila a los vigilantes?
    VIP Pledge Member Founding Fanatic 2018 March Madness Winner

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    Appreciate the information! Thanks for clearing that up.
     
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  14. Wanker751

    Wanker751 Chairman
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    Thanks Kevin, a guy I am friends with that runs a slot floor at my local said the same thing and does the same.

    Iiirc the older machines didn't allowed the change in payback where newer ones do.
     
  15. tringlomane

    tringlomane Theoretical Video Poker Addict
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    Thanks Kevin, I really appreciate the transparency.
     
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  16. Figment76

    Figment76 Gold

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    When my friends and fellow gamblers ask me why we always stay at Cosmo, this is why. From the top down every employee kicks ass. Thanks for sharing. We really appreciate your openness when you can.
     
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  17. kwool

    kwool Silver

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    Saw a G2E video with an Aristocrat rep talking about one of the major selling points of Dragon Link being all those denoms in one machine with specific paybacks for each.

    Nice to see we're getting a confirmation on such configs at Cosmo. It also makes me feel better about choosing to hit that 5c/10c option. :)
     
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  18. GlenCoco

    GlenCoco “4(OAK) for you, GlenCoco – you go, GlenCoco”

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    100% agreed – I could not agree more, @Figment76. Thank you for your transparency and for taking the time to post, @Cosmo_Slot_Vice_President!
     
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  19. Grid!

    Grid! Platinum

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    I had to dig deep in my pile of saved junk for this! Treasure Chest will stay in your account for 18 months on a rolling period. You must earn 1 club point to get 1 TC point so you must play $1.50 coin on a slot ($4.50 on VP) in order to move the TC points forward. If you play $1.49 coin, it wont count.

    TI Players Club point inactivity. Inactivity is defined as 12 consecutive months with no TI Players Club points earned. Your base points, that you flip into free play, have a year shelf life. Drop in's do not hurt much there, and most of their offers come with no stay free play, so you can make a run at it!
     
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  20. Texaschameleon

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    I have to say that I am quite impressed with Cosmo. I accepted a match offer after playing there one day for a nice little hand pay and a few small wins. I stayed two nights and my total points ended up being 11,200 for the three days play with 28,000 coin in.

    Today I received the new Cruise offer which surprised me since I don't have a history with them yet. I am going back for Superbowl weekend for two nights hoping to make Gold....then...going to try for Platinum by the end of this year.

    I have been loyal to V/P and they take good care of me but it looks like Cosmo is a great choice too.
     
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