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Laughable Proof: CET tier credit earning for table players

Discussion in 'Total Rewards - Caesars Entertainment' started by TIMSPEED, Jun 23, 2019.

  1. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED Platinum
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    I am Terrance Watanabe
    SO I got LAUGHABLE proof of just how bad table games are for earning Tier Credits at CET...
    I was at Harrahs NorCal last night playing their "craps".
    I literally played 6 hours, at a $50 average. (I verified this multiple times as well as with a host). This was $50 on place bets ($44 inside plus $10 passline).
    I asked a host how many tier credits I earned...312 TC
    HAHAHAHAH...in SIX HOURS of $50 betting at the dice table (Which anyone can tell you, at $50 a clip, if you catch a bad string of shooters, you can lose $500 QUICK)
    However I got lucky and only lost $100 in the course of six hours.
    Comparitevely..312 Tier Credits can be earned playing a PENNY SLOT ($5 a spin; which a LOTTTT can easily be played for that much) in an HOUR (300 spins...a spin every 12 seconds; which is ABOUT average)

    Which would you rather do...stand at a crap table all night, or sit at a slot for one hour? (and your offers would probably be a LOT better from that one hour of slots)
    And for those of you who say MATH MATH MATH SLOTS ARE BAD...ok...$1500 coin-in at 10% slot loss..$150 loss...

    P.S.- Don't take this as a rant, because I am a degenerate and enjoyed playing dice for six hours on $100.
    P.P.S- They DID issue me a $20 comp slip...but I THINK they just used my RC's...because I should have had a little more than I have now..but I won't be able to see that until the 7th of next month.
     
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  2. dvandentop

    dvandentop Chairman
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    Damn that is horrible
     
  3. tringlomane

    tringlomane Theoretical Video Poker Addict
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    I guess we'll let you join...
    The problem with their rating system is they base it on assuming you're just going to make pass line bets. If you were betting the pass line the entire time, 312TC is about right. 1TC is worth 50c of theoretical loss. Same goes for boyd's new system that screws over VP players.
     
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  4. Royal Flusher

    Royal Flusher Platinum
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    That's pretty bad. But it does tell me that the house edge on penny slots is at least six times higher than craps.

    I'm pretty sure you were betting for the crew too, right? That usually helps the rating.
     
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  5. newmans

    newmans Mayflower Fury
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    I've been told by the pit at CET that they put in 3 different numbers to sum to your average bet. Obviously you get the most torque for center action.
    I'm always a passline bet with full odds and right across and I press. I also have a lot of center action. My average generally runs between $350 - $475. I find the theo I generate on craps at CET is FAR superior to the same play at Cosmo. For 4- 5 hours of play, I generate over 5k TCs.
     
    #5 newmans, Jun 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
    joshj, aprilroncincy, jaemo and 2 others like this.
  6. tringlomane

    tringlomane Theoretical Video Poker Addict
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    I guess we'll let you join...
    And guess what, it is if you're betting the pass line!
     
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  7. tringlomane

    tringlomane Theoretical Video Poker Addict
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    That's good that they try to differentiate between the bets somewhat.
     
  8. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED Platinum
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    That’s good to know that Cosmo rates craps WORSE...but odd that you have a $400 average and get 5000TC; where I had a $50 average and got 300...moving that up I’d of got 3000 for $500 average.
    So they must have had me rated for the “low” rating vs. the “high” rating.
    Still the insane part about that is, you’d have to buy in for a MINIMUM of $5000 to play like that for 4 hours...the same 5000TC could be used to earn 5000TC on slots and get you WAY better offers.
    Yes, I know math math math, but let’s forget about the math for a second and look at REALITY of a cold craps table vs. cold slots...both of which could wipe that $5000 out quickly. Would you have earned your 5000TC? Sure, but it costs you $5000 (like me, I always lose the full bankroll to get my TC somehow)
    The difference is on slots...they’re going to come kissing your ass like a mofo
     
  9. newmans

    newmans Mayflower Fury
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    I assume the big difference is that you don't have any center action. Center action generates the most theo.
     
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  10. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED Platinum
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    But also has HE of 10%+
    I only bet hardways for the dealers.
     
  11. Feldzieg

    Feldzieg Bronze

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    But that kind of proves their point, doesn't it? I think as a smart craps player who stays away from the high house edge bets and comes in with a limited bankroll you just have to accept the fact that your play will not generate a high rating - because on the long run you're not worth much to them. You're absolutely right that you can lose a lot on a cold table. But you can also win a lot on a hot one. I had some VERY profitable runs for a low-roller at craps.

    I have a similar betting style and never get much out of it either. Boyd gives you a comped buffet if you ask and better ratings than elsewhere. Cosmo is generally not a fan of limited bankroll table players. That's why I save my craps bankroll for other places.

    I basically play craps for fun and a decent chance at actually winning something, slots for fun and ADT/comp value and VP for a mixture of everything.
     
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  12. Sinnerman

    Sinnerman Bronze

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    Yeah, this is what I was told at CET as well, They put an average bet and three different numbers (conservative, medium, aggressive) that creates the theo. My play varies a lot depending on what I am seeing happen to the dice. Sometimes, I am heavy in the center, other times I play just pass line. So my rating is almost always inaccurate depending on what the pit boss sees at any particular moment.

    And yeah, Cosmo definitely has a rep of undervaluing table players and their table player rating is terrible.
     
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  13. GamblingGirl

    GamblingGirl Bronze

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    So I've earned more than that from playing Blackjack at $10-$15 bets. I really think it comes down to the pit boss deciding what they want to give you half the time. Maybe it helps that I'm female, haha.
     
  14. mistytalon

    mistytalon Member

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    I wish they would publish at least a few more details of how TC are calculated at table games, as I am not a slot player, I spend most of my time at the tables, and in my experience the way you accrue credits at a table game is much closer to voodoo magic than it is anything else.
     
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  15. Beebs17

    Beebs17 Silver
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    I’m sure there’s a formula that you can back out. For example, at MLife, you get approximately 54% of your average bet in BJ as theo. So, if you play $100 a hand for 1 hour, that’s $54 in theo. Then, for tier points, it’s approximately 30 tier points to $1 in theo, so about 1600 tier points would be earned.

    The same formula will exist for CET, somebody just has to do the math and back out what it is.
     
  16. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED Platinum
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    Yeah you can know the “formula”, but you’re still at the mercy of the “pencil”
     
  17. Beebs17

    Beebs17 Silver
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    100%. It’s why I almost always ask what they have my average bet at before I leave. I’ve seen it when it’s been extremely wrong and they’ll usually fix it. There was one time when they wouldn’t and I went to my host and he had it adjusted, it hurts him too.
     

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